Matthew 16:18; Is this the true rock of Jesus' church? or Satan in disguise?

Matthew 16:18 ';....that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it';


This verse has been designated as a premise for the Authority of the Popes as the successor's to St Peter, thus giving Catholicism the unique denomination of Christ's chosen Church. BUT if you look a few verses down the page as a rebuke;





Matthew 16:23; ';......said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: though art an offence to me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.';





Peter then went on to deny Jesus ';three times b4 the cock crow'; ( though the cock crowed after the first denial in Mark 14: 66-72) ALSO


2 Corinthians 11:14-15; '; and no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works';


Could this mean the Vatican is the house of Satan?Matthew 16:18; Is this the true rock of Jesus' church? or Satan in disguise?
The Vatican state has its own citizenship, issues its own currency and postage stamps, and has its own flag and a large diplomatic corps.





The Vatican City has its own newspaper (Osservatore Romano), railroad station, and broadcasting facility (first established by Marconi under Pius XI). The seven Vatican universities, including the Pontifical Gregorian Univ., are located in Rome.





The Vatican is above all the seat of the central government of the Roman Catholic Church. The pope governs with the College of cardinals, all dressed in bright red (?). He may act as he chooses without their consent, but in practice he relies on the cardinals for advice as well as for administration of the church government. The whole administrative body surrounding the pope and responsible to him is called the Curia Romana.





The papal court long had all the characteristics of a royal court, such as elaborate rituals and uniforms, and complex rules of precedence; however, since the reign of Pope John XXIII (1958–63) and the Second Vatican Council, many of the Vatican ceremonies have been greatly simplified. The bodyguard of the pope is the corps of Swiss Guards, founded in the 16th cent. and made up of a small group of Roman Catholic Swiss. Its members wear the splendid Renaissance uniforms designed by Michelangelo.





Like any royalty, the Prince (Pope) has Palaces and the Vatican’s Treasures





The palaces themselves form an irregular mass of three-story and four-story buildings, built on long, plain lines and broken by additions and alterations. The papal residence and offices occupy the portion near the colonnade, and the rest is given over to museums and the Vatican Library.





The Vatican museums are among the most important in the world; they are the Museo Pio-Clementino, founded in the 18th cent. and containing one of the world’s great collections of antiquities; the Chiaramonti Museum, founded in the early 19th cent. and holding a collection of Greek sculptures and Renaissance imitations; the Braccio Nuovo, considered by many to be the most beautiful of all the museums; the Egyptian Museum and the Etruscan Museum, opposite the Braccio Nuovo; and the Pinacoteca Vaticana (opened in 1932), which contains paintings by Giotto, Guercino, Caravaggio, Poussin, and others.





The museums, however, house only part of the Vatican’s treasure, for many of the Renaissance and modern paintings are found in the galleries surrounding the various courtyards, such as the Cortile del Belvedere and the Cortile San Damasco. Adjoining the Cortile San Damasco is the building containing the Borgia apartments on the first floor and the Raphael rooms on the second. The works of Raphael and his followers in the building make it one of the most famous artistic monuments in the world. The Vatican Library lies all along the western side of the Giardino della Pigna and Cortile del Belvedere. It is one of the world’s richest repositories of ancient and medieval manuscripts in many languages. The principal chapel in the Vatican is the Sistine Chapel, the ceiling of which was painted (1508–12) by Michelangelo.





So why does the head of the worlds richest organisation create such poverty in the areas of the world where it is strongest. In 2003, the Holy See recorded income of $251 million and expenses of $263 million, a financial statement comparable to that of several dioceses in some developed countries.





back in the 60's Bankers' best guesses about the Vatican's wealth put it at $10 billion to $15 billion. Of this wealth, Italian stockholdings alone ran to $1.6 billion, 15% of the value of listed shares on the Italian market. The Vatican had big investments in banking, insurance, chemicals, steel, construction, real estate.





Unlike ordinary stockholders, the Vatican pays no taxes on this income, which led the leftist Rome weekly L'Espresso to call it ';the biggest tax evader in Italy.'; The poor (sic) old church probally has a deficit because of the fall in value of the dollar to the Euro, as most of this wealth was shifted during the last cradsh into dollar markets.





The Vatican now has large investments with the Rothschilds of Britain, France and America, with the Hambros Bank, with the Credit Suisse in London and Zurich. In the United States it has large investments with the Morgan Bank, the Chase-Manhattan Bank, the First National Bank of New York, the Bankers Trust Company, and others.





The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc. At a conservative estimate, these amount to more than 500 million dollars in the U.S.A. alone.





In a statement published in connection with a bond prospectus, the less wealthy Boston archdiocese listed its assets at Six Hundred and Thirty-five Million ($635,891,004), which is 9.9 times its liabilities. The Catholic church, once all her assets have been put together, is the most formidable stockbroker in the world. The Vatican, independently of each successive pope, has been increasingly orientated towards the U.S. The Wall Street Journal said that the Vatican's financial deals in the U.S. alone were so big that very often it sold or bought gold in lots of a million or more dollars at one time.





Just go to any counrty where it is operating, and you will see that many of its investments and funds come from some very unethicial sources. The Roman Catholic Church Of The Philippines is receiving millions of pesos donated by Philippine Amusement %26amp; Gaming Corporations (PAGCOR) Money earned from gambling?Matthew 16:18; Is this the true rock of Jesus' church? or Satan in disguise?
Its a good possibility they are!





God loves you....God bless
I believe that you raise more questions than most Christians/Catholics care to address--hence the tendency of most of them to hide behind the rebuke ';my faith transcends your petty logic'; or the Shakespearean ';there is more in heaven and on Earth than in all of your philosophies';.... Whatever!
You are 100 % correct. keep studing the Words Jesus spoke, and you will see the truth, concerning Moses and Solomon, David, Saul and the Prophets. You will know who the beast is and the name of the man, nothing is hidden, a babe can understand it, but you must believe in all the Words spoken by Jesus and His witness John.





You will even know who John the Baptist is and was, but they will not believe you, but you must endure till the end.





I am you brother in Christ, a disciple of Jesus the Christ.
Nope.





Everydaycatholic is correct - you need to read the whole thing.





Your assumption is incorrect.
No on all accounts. First and foremost, Jesus would have not been fooled by Satan's disguise if indeed your first premise were correct.





Secondly, you err in your exegesis of this passage to begin with. What Jesus is actually saying is the following:





You are Petros (a small stone) and upon this (speaking of himself) petra (large rock as in a foundation stone, bedrock) I will build my church.





In essence encouraging Peter that he would be used greatly as a stone that Jesus would use to build upon the foundation of Jesus. However, not THE ROCK (which from Exodus on is a figurative reference to the Messiah )but a stone.








This reading is confirmed by Paul in the following in reference to the Church:


1Cor 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than what is being laid, which is Jesus Christ. (NET)





Hope this helps in your understanding of this incorrect doctrine of Apostolic succession.





edit-- Chris, unless you are God, you have absolutely no right to determine who is saved and who is not. While many of the traditional Catholic doctrines are error, that does not mean they are not Christian.





They are very much Christian as they believe in Jesus as fully God, fully man born of a virgin. They believe that he lived sinlessly, died for our sins and rose on the third day then ascended into heaven to sit on the right hand of the Father. This makes them Christian.





Further, Hus lived and died a Catholic Priest.





Finally, your church, my church and everyone's church (and us personally) have some points incorrect. None of us is infallible in our knowledge and understanding of God's word. I would say that a small bit of humility is in order.





edit-- WOW! Based on your rejection of Paul, it is you who should examine your faith.





Peter (who you likewise must reject) not only accepted Paul but counted his writings as scripture 2 Peter 3:15.





Further, you must reject Luke (the largest contributor of content to the NT) as he records as scripture that Paul met Jesus face to face on the way to Damascus.





I could go on and on but there is no need. You like Marcion and so many others like to pick and choose what you will accept as scripture. The problem with this is that it all ties together. If you reject some, you end up rejecting all.
You need to read ALL of the Gospels. In John 21: 15-17, we see this conversation between Jesus and Peter:





When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, ';Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?'; He said to him, ';Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.'; He said to him, ';Feed my lambs.';


He then said to him a second time, ';Simon, son of John, do you love me?'; He said to him, ';Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.'; He said to him, ';Tend my sheep.';


He said to him the third time, ';Simon, son of John, do you love me?'; Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, ';Do you love me?'; and he said to him, ';Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.'; (Jesus) said to him, ';Feed my sheep.';





Jesus is known as the Good Shepherd and in these verses, Jesus is clearly telling Peter that he is to be the new shepherd of the flock.
33 A.D.


Roman Catholic Church (moved to Rome by Peter after he fled Jerusalem) was founded by God-made-man, Jesus Christ. He said: ';Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it... Feed my lambs; feed My sheep'; (Matt. 16:18,19; John 21:15,17). He also said: ';He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who gathers not with me scatters'; (Matt.12:30).





It is much easier to understand Peter's role of leadership by reading Acts. He is clearly the leader of the Church. One such example, there are others, is Acts 15:6 where Peter addressing the other Apostles clearly states his leadership role: ';My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you that through my mouth...';


Around or about 45 AD, Peter went to Rome and from there lead the Catholic Church. As of today, there have been 263 Popes in direct succession to Peter. The position of Pope was established by Christ and the office has been maintained in an apostolic manner since the time of Christ. Although the Church has fragmented since the time of Christ with various leadership centers emerging, the apostolic line of succession in the Church is seated in Rome until this very day. Many throughout time have tried to rationalize away and deny the authority and structure of the Church as established by Jesus.








In the time of Jesus there was only one truth. He founded one Church. For 1600 years there was only one Church. For 1600 years there was only one truth. Paul did not foretell the Protestant Reformation and the thousands of different Christian churches, but he did warn us about the human nature that led to it.











';For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, will accumulate teachers and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths.'; 2 Timothy 4:3-4





For about the last 400 years, Protestant churches have multiplied and divided until today there are over 33,000 denominations - all professing their own version of the truth. All Protestant faiths disregard Sacred Tradition, which is the literal living history of the Church founded by Jesus.








Of the Apostles on night Jesus was arrested, one betrayed him, one denied him three times, and ten ran away. The Church has, and always will, suffer due to human weakness; but the





ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH REMAINS





Over 33,000 Sects ';Scattered'; Outside The One Church Founded By Christ over 2,000 years ago





There Was Only ONE Church Founded By Christ


AND HIS CHURCH STILL LIVES TODAY AND THAT CHURCH IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
You are right in your question, In revelations theres a statement that says to get out of her my people if you do not want to share with her in her sins, this refers to Babylon the Great the world empire of false religion, so there is we can admit false religion is here.
What is truth? Who is god? Anyone who does thing good to people and sacrified himself, I can call him god. The arguement or trueth finders is not a issue. Anyone can make thing trueth and anyone can make thing false.
The Rock, Jesus was referring to in Matthew 16 was not Peter, but rather Peter's statement of faith.





I'm convinced that the visions various people, usually young girls, have seen over the years, visions alledgedly of Mary, were really Satan or demons appearing as an angel of light to confuse the non Biblical religion of Rome and draw them further away from the truth.





The visions I am referring to were claimed to have been seen by Bernadette of Lourdes, France and by three children early in the beginning of the 20th century in Fatima, Porturgal and some others.





This was, I believe, one of Satan's many attempts to get attention taken away from Jesus.





I grieve for those who have been deceived by these visions which originated in the pits of hell.





Pastor Art
Chapter 16 in Matthew is about faith. Verse 18 is very famous, but for a good interpretation are important also the other verses before v. 18:





13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, ';Who do people say the Son of Man is?';


14They replied, ';Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.';


15';But what about you?'; he asked. ';Who do you say I am?';


16Simon Peter answered, ';You are the Christ,[b] the Son of the living God.';


17Jesus replied, ';Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.';





The church is not founden on Peter. The church is founded on the faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God.





Jesus gives to Simon the nickname ';Peter'; because it is given him a strong faith.





Ok, Peter denies Jesus 3 times. But how many times we deny Christ, even if we have faith and want to believe with all our heart and living accordingly to our faith?





Peter was just a human being, as we are.





The problem with verse 18 is, that mostly it is read and interpreted without thinking of the context.
Catholics are not saved and are not Christians. Catholics believe a false gospel of works that leads to eternal hell (Galatians 1).





Bible teachers that said the Vatican and the catholic cult are an antichrist: John Bunyan, John Huss, John Wycliffe, John Calvin, William Tyndale, John Knox, Thomas Bacon, John Wesley, Charles Spurgeon, Samuel Cooper, John Cotton, and Jonathan Edwards
Unlike what Chris said, Catholics are Christians. I am not Catholic but it is not my place to judge someone's believes, whether I agree with them or not. Chris is just anti-Catholic, and has probably never even been to a Catholic Church.





I believe that Peter was the true leader of the early church, but any way of choosing the next leader after Peter died is pure speculation. It is not written in the scriptures if Jesus told the disciples how to choose leaders...so they may be doing it correctly(by conclave) or it could be completely wrong...only those in Heaven know the truth.
We said tebone0315, I like your answer well put. Silver Tongue where in the hell did you come with those incorrect verses. First of all, this is a bad way to for a Protestant to interpret the bible and use them for his own benefits by twisting the truth. You need to read whole Matthew 16, Mark 14, and 2 Corinthians 11 to understand what is really saying. Second, logical sequence is wrong by pick those verse. Third, you or your Minister is saying God should not give authority to man to teach his teaching because man is imperfect that goes wrong with scripture. God gave the authority to Peter and the Apostles to teach. Even the Apostles gave the authority to their disciples to pass their teachings as Esteban and other. They knew how import was to carry Jesus message to the ages. The Catholic Church is run by man who is guided by Holy Spirit. They have learned from their past mistakes and now more complex government system less to fall into error. Plus, to correct the path we always go back to teaching of Christ from the beginning when Christ founded the church. Plus, Church is the New Jerusalem as on the old prophet guided the people back to the right path also the Saint of the Church do. God make word come true it says, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The only thing that changes is the method that it evangelized the world in time. Last for the other writers, Peter is the Rock in Aramaic it is Rock. Aramatic was Jesus Language which the orginal scripture was then later was translated to Greek.
No one knows the answer to that. This is a much debated issue of who the ';rock'; is. The Life Applications Study Bible states its explanation below:





';The rock on which Jesus would build his church has been identified as Jesus himself (his work of salvation by dying for us on the cross). Also Peter (the first great leader in the church at Jerusalem), and the confession of faith that Peter gave and that all subsequent true believers would give. Peter reminds Christians that they are the church built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ as the cornerstone (1 Peter 2:4-6).';





I am working out my own salvation as I seek the truth based on the scriptures. Whether the Vatican is going to play a spiritual role in the future, whether positive or negative, only time will tell.
You are right Silver...the papacy is a representation of satan himself..he works through the church, the vatican even to mislead people and what is written in the Scriptures themselves. I asked a question on this earlier and it was removed cause people don't like to hear the truth. It is one of the leading doctrines of romanism that the pope is the visible head of the universal church of Christ. Popes have even been given the title of deity. God has never given a hint in His word that He has appointed any man as the head of the church. And the doctrine of papal supremacy is directly oppsed to the teachings of the Scriptures. The pope can have no power over Christ's church except by usurpation. People are taught that the pope is an earthly mediator and that none could approach God except through him. And this is not true at all. God alone can only rectify a person's wrong or sin. When the Scriptures are suppressed as what happened during the Dark Ages, man comes to regard himself as supreme and above God himself, you will see nothing but fraud, deception, and the works of satan. So glad you pointed it out!
Brethren,





Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.