Yes.
Even though its true that a particular theology is not necessarily polytheistic if it ascribes to separate persons as a deity, to which even Achtung has admitted. Thus is the case for all in Christendom, as well as Russellite theology. What does make all the difference between polytheism and Biblical monotheism in this regard is whether these persons are also considered to be separate deities (which of course the Bible and Christendom doesn't), usually leaving just one to be worshipped above all others. Russellite theology ascribes to such a belief. How is this any different from the Greek and Roman pagan religions of Jesus' time that believed in demi-gods, which were subordinate in essence to others? I see none.
Achtung calls Jesus ';a god';, and then gives reference to John 1:1 and John 1:18, as if that is what the Apostle John was telling his readers; that Jesus was a different god than (therefore not equal to) our Creator and Redeemer God. However, it is clear from the context of chapter 1 (which Russellites have such a habit of ignoring in order to suit their theological presuppositions) that Jesus IS the Creator God (John 1:3) and our Redeemer God (John 1:14-17). This must mean that He is equal to the Father. The Jews of Jesus' day understood that this is what Jesus meant when He called God His Father, according to John 5:18, so why can't Russellites accept what was even plain to those to whom He was preaching? And, the Apostle John didn't dispute this observation of theirs as being inaccurate. Why would he have left such basic theology, if it were, unchecked?
What's just as spurious is that Achtung quotes Philippians 2:6 (evidently from the WTS, a very inaccurate interpretation, which many have told me isn't even a direct translation from the original language; Koine Greek) to say that Jesus wasn't really God, just appearing to be (as if that were an illusion? Was He out to mislead us in some way?), and that He wouldn't dare claim to be, given that He wasn't. Again, just like John 1, how does that interpretation even fit the context of the 2nd chapter of this Pauline epistle, where the Apostle Paul is making the most extreme contrast that one can make about Christ's ministry of loving condescension for us all, from an identity and place in His most majestic and divine nature, to the most humble of all callings as a despised man, dying a criminal's death? Wouldn't that interpretation really downplay, if not totally render ineffective, such a glorious contrast?
THIS is why He did not consider equality with His Father to be grasped, because of His calling, not because it wasn't true! (It is crystal clear in Hebrews 1:3 that Jesus Christ IS the ';exact representation'; of His Father.) It is why you read so much about His subordinate role, and don't read about Him claiming to such equality in the gospels, unless He was under pressure to do so, when He was being interrogated by the Pharisees (John 8:58; 10:30) and the Jewish and Roman authorities (Matthew 26:64; 27:2; Mark 14:62; 15:2; Luke 22:70; 23:3; John 18:37). The most prominent theme of the gospel of Mark is about the messianic SECRET, that of Jesus' identity, because of His call and purpose as a lowly servant.
It is interesting to note that AFTER Jesus' ministry of condescension was completed at the cross, an emphasis towards His place and ministry of exaltation begins (Jesus does not refuse the Apostle Thomas' worship, nor his profession of His deity in John 20:28), just as it says in Philippians 2:9-11. It is why you'll find most of the passages about Jesus being worshipped in the epistles and Revelation (Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 1:17; 5:8).
It is also absolutely inconsistent, if not insincere, of Achtung, and Russellite theology in particular, to claim any deification to Jesus, but not also ascribe to Him the glory that is due to deity, that of being worshipped. They call what the angels do with Jesus as ';obeisance'; instead (classic isogesis!), in their interpretation of Hebrews 1:6. This is a quotation from Deuteronomy 32:43 in the Septuagint (Greek OT), the Song of Moses calling all to worship the Lord God. The word there in Greek is also the same one as what was used in so many passages in Revelation, such as when the twenty-four elders fell down before God (19:4). And that word is ONLY to be translateed as ';worship';. At least the pagans were honest and consistent about their polytheistic view.If they believe that Jehovah is one true God and Jesus is a Savior god, are they polytheistic?
Not having studied with these people much and with this mention of polytheism, it would seem that there is a strong similarity. Especially, since the JW's seem to reinterpret the bible differently from others. They say that here isn't a trinity, because the holy spirit is god's active force and not a separate entity.
They believe Jesus was the archangel Michael in heaven and supposedly didn't recall his life in heaven until he was baptized by John. If god is a time traveler or interdimensional being, he may have been using several human and or angelic forms to act through also. The bible mentions people used as mouthpieces at different times.
The ten heads etc. of the beast can possibly represent a person with alternate personalities or spirits. The bible mentions the seven spirits of god. Jesus had supposedly cast out seven spirits out of some woman also.
The Antichrist and or satan may represent some mockery or nearly identical counterfeit system similar to god's. Some believe god is really some super computer somewhere.
In some fictional movies we see today, many of the people are played by one actor such as Eddie Murphy in a film. A time traveling entity could also do this in the supernatural.
Don't accept anything as the whole truth though.
If they believe that Jehovah is one true God and Jesus is a Savior god, are they polytheistic?
No, they are not polytheistic.
We only worship the only true God Jehovah.
Whereas the trinity teaches that:
The Father is God
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God.
Three Gods. Since you worship all three, then trinitarians are polytheistic.
Paul at 1 Cor 8:5, 6 tells us that there are many gods in heaven.
but for Christians we worship only God the Father.
.
The word 'God' (from German roots) is misleading. The Greek is similar in that a singular word, 'theos', was used to translate the plural Hebrew word. In the Old Testament the Hebrew word used for God (and theos) was 'Elohim'. It is the PLURAL of 'El'. 'El' means 'strong, mighty, powerful or authoritative one. And 'Elohim' means strong ones. Thus, Elohim includes multiple persons and yet still is one Elohim. And translating that to English results in saying, ';God includes multiple persons and yet still is one God.';
Polytheist, from the Greek, means many gods. Translating that back to Hebrew (if I may coin a word) would result in many Elohim -- or many groups of powerful beings. And thus, those who believe that Jesus and the Father are God but distinct individuals, are not polytheists.
.
There's a word for the doctrine that there are many real gods in existence: ';polytheism, [Gr. 'polys', many, 'theos', god.] The doctrine of a plurality of gods.'; (Webster's International 1965).
The Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons say that 'there are many gods.' Though this teaching meets the dictionary definition of polytheism, they insist that it's really monotheism. According to them, the dividing line between monotheism and polytheism isn't the presence or absence of ';many gods';, but rather, that the ';many'; are in subjection to ';One';.
One can discover primitives whose pantheons are disorganized and chaotic, but the pagans of the world unto which the gospel was proclaimed were not like that. Such stories as they had inherited of warfare in heaven, they allegorized. Their pantheon was as strictly hierarchical as the Watchtower's:
';Let us explore completely this matter of the monarchy of the only God and the manifold rule of those who are revered as gods. Your [the Christian] idea of the single rule is amiss, for a monarch is not the only man alive but the only man who rules. He rules, obviously, over his kinsmen and those like himself. Take for example the emperor Hadrian: he was a monarch because he ruled over those who were like him by race and nature - not because he existed alone somewhere or lorded it over oxen and sheep, as some poor shepherd might do. In the same way: the supreme God would not be supreme unless he ruled over other gods. Only this sort of power would do justice to the greatness of God and redound to his honor...Why do we argue about names?...The one whom the Greeks call Athena is called Minerva by the Romans, and she is called other things by the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Thracians, and so on...Whether one addresses these divine beings as gods or angels matters very little, since their nature remains the same.'; (Porphyry, Porphyry's Against the Christians, the Literary Remains, Edited by R. Joseph Hoffman, pp. 83-84).
Porphyry sounds like a Jehovah's Witness...so why is he attacking the Christians from a pagan perspective?
It's undeniable there was a sharp conflict between the Jews and Christians of the ancient world and their contemporary pagan polytheists. The conflict raged over basic theology. Why would there have been any such conflict if the early believers had been Jehovah's Witnesses who joined with the pagans in confessing many gods, with one atop the heap?
They are different facets of the same God.
(Genesis 1:26 KJV) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
';And God said, Let us'; Who is the us? Because the phrase Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:(Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV) is also in the Bible.
Exodus 20:2-7 KJV I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. (3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: (5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; (6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (7) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
No, believing the Bible truth that God and Christ are distinct persons is not polytheistic. There is one Almighty God, and only one god who deserves a unique form of worship which can only be referred to as monotheism.
It seems obvious that a person is not polytheistic merely because he believes the bible, or because he acknowledges the existence of these other so-called ';gods';. A person is polytheistic when he WORSHIPS multiple ';gods';, believing them to be peers. Jehovah is ';the one true God'; in the sense that He has no rival.
...(1 Corinthians 8:5) there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth
...(Psalm 86:8,10) There is none like you among the gods, O Jehovah... You are God, you alone.
...(Exodus 22:20) One who sacrifices to any gods but Jehovah alone is to be devoted to destruction.
Almighty Jehovah (';God the Father';) has no peers. Jesus is not an equal of Jehovah, although the Bible does use the term ';god'; in reference to Jesus and others who are powerful and important.
...Jesus as ';a god';: (John 1:1; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:18)
...Angels as 'gods': (Psalm 82:1)
...Satan as a 'god': (2 Corinthians 4:4)
...Human judges as ';gods';: (Psalm 82:6-8)
Such ';gods'; are not the peer of Almighty God, Jehovah (the Father). Interestingly, even Jesus taught that the Father deserved a unique form of ';sacred service';.
.. ..(Exodus 20:2,5) I am Jehovah your God... I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion
.. ..(Philippians 2:5,6) Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God
.. ..(Luke 4:8) Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
Incidentally, the Bible writer Luke at Acts 4:25-27 quotes from Psalms 2:1,2. Although these passages are part of the Christian and Hebrew Scriptures respectively, BOTH passages make it plain that there is an ';anointed one'; who is distinct from God. The Psalm plainly calls that God by the name ';Jehovah'; (explicitly using the Tetragrammaton) and Acts plainly calls the anointed one by the name ';Jesus';.
.. ..(Psalm 2:1,2) [David wrote] Why have the nations been in tumult and the national groups themselves kept muttering an empty thing? 2 The kings of earth take their stand And high officials themselves have massed together as one against Jehovah [that is, the Tetragrammaton explicitly] and against his anointed one
.. ..(Acts 4:24-27) [Peter, John, and fellow Christians] said: “Sovereign Lord, you...said by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant, ‘Why did nations become tumultuous and peoples meditate upon empty things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers massed together as one against Jehovah [based on the Tetragrammaton's use at Ps 2:2] and against his anointed one.’ 27 Even so, both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of nations and with peoples of Israel were in actuality gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus
No matter how you ask, no matter what you say, no matter what they hear, unless it comes from the ';Almighty Watchtower'; they will not listen. You ask if they worship two gods and you get responses like ';well you worship three gods. Childish at best, I am surprised that it didn't end with ';nah nah nuh nuh nuh'; Anyhow, they do as they are told, like the good little robots of the ';Almighty Watchtower';.
Realistically, they only worship one God, Jehovah. The other is just a god, Jesus and they don't worship him at all. They did until sometime in the 1950's and then they quit. So they only worship one God and all the others are false gods. So where does that leave Jesus a false god, like satan? To the JW's Satan is a god. If we are to believe what the ';Almighty Watchtower tell us, then Jesus is Michael the Archangel and Satan is the fallen angel. They are brothers, sons of God, Jehovah, not gods of God, Jehovah, but sons. So where does that leave Jesus? So if he is not God then what kind of god is he, a false god ? The Jehovah's Witnesses must explain this one. But along with their other doctrines, they explain it away with some scripture that is stretched as far as you can get it or you just reason it from the scriptures.
They think that trinitarians believe in 3 gods. We do NOT we agree there is only ONE God they do not understand the trinity because the WTS will not tell them the truth about what the trinity is and they refuse to listen to anyone else.
Scary for them
Edit :
Moses I do not worship 3 I worship ONE I worship God.
Just as my human father is body soul and spirit but one dad that I love so is God: Father Son and Spirit. I do not love my 3 dads ONLY one same as worship of God only ONE. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
I do take issue with ';Jehovah'; being anywhere near an accurate rendition of God Almighty's name.
They consider Jesus ';a god'; and all humans as gods per
John 10:33
';I and the Father are one.'; The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. … Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?';
This again is an attack on the divinity and deity of Jesus Christ the ';only anointed and begotten Son of God Almighty.
Some of these people consider their leadership to be ';anointed'; which means in this usage heir to the throne like a prince is to a king.
So they not only reduce or Lord and Savior as the only Way but elevate themselves to be equal to Jesus.
That's a wonderful question. The answer is no they are not because the bible speaks of the holy trinity, three forms, all one god. Strange I know. But that's the way I see it.
I assume you mean Jehovah's Witnesses, and I do believe that makes two Gods, as they say Jesus is a god. A JW will agree there is one true God and all the others are false - so where does that leave Jesus?
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus said you have seen Me you have seen the Father. God Be With You
Yes! Even the ones who run the cult the ones they claim are anointed their government are looked at as gods.
No, not at all.
Jehovah God took on human flesh and and His name is Jesus.
Yes, but they wont admit it. The fact is, the christian belief is a polytheistic one which involves the interaction between a divine creator and a man, who is separate from the creator but still divine himself. For does he not say ';Why hast thou forsaken me?';.
The problem with polytheism is that it creates doubt as to whether you are favouring the correct part of the triumvirate, for instance in normal polytheistic faith the structures are as follows
Deity --- Deity ---- Deity
Believer
But in christianity the triumvirate has been re-arranged so that
God
Spirit
Jebus
Believer
Thus, supposedly, belief in any one of them counts for all three of them. Of course, that is rather unique and equally flawed because it is illogical for one thing to be separate and together with another thing. However, christians can counter this with a delusion, this is called cognitive dissonance.
Mom2ThreeAngels, you don't understand. We know you don't believe in three Gods.
Nina - A savior God. Do you know the Greek and Hebrew meaning of God? Do some research please.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
No comments:
Post a Comment